Respected NBA writer Adrian Wojnarowski of Yahoo Sports let the cat out of the bag late yesterday afternoon, reporting the deal had been completed in principle. Pending physicals, it will send Ford, centre Rasho Nesterovic, the Raptors’ pick in tonight’s draft (17th overall) and another warm body to Indiana (to make the financials work) in exchange for 29-year-old centre Jermaine O’Neal.
Because of Ford’s base-year deal, the trade will not be announced officially until at least July 9, at the conclusion of the NBA’s mandated moratorium period.
Colangelo wasn’t going to spill this one himself yesterday when he sat down with the local media to go over the various draft scenarios, but he hinted at it strongly.
“Right now we have the 17th pick,” Colangelo said. “There are a few scenarios we have explored that would include (that pick) in a deal where it would mean we would possibly be selecting for someone else.”
In effect, the Raptors still make their selection at 17 but they will be picking a player the Pacers want and then holding on to him until the deal is announced officially.
In a post-2008 season interview with Slam’s Michael Tillery in April, O’Neal addressed his knee problems specifically.
“Now my knee is healed,” O’Neal said. “It’s the best my knee has felt in two years. It’s all about getting my cardio and my rhythm back, trying to be effective and learning how to punish guys all over again in the low post.”
In the interview O’Neal said the 21/2-month layoff last year helped him not just physically but has motivated him to get back to the 20-10 guy he was before his knee problems.
“I’m taking it all back to the drawing stage,” he said. “I’ve put together a great staff that’s going to put my honour all back together. I’m not far from it. The knee is just about 100% strength. The healing part is already done. I’m really excited and very much looking forward to getting back on the court next year.”
Colangelo hinted yesterday that even if he moved the No. 17 pick, he still might wind up getting the guy he wanted.
“Assuming we move 17 we might try to acquire a later pick which there are a few available, or at least what I would call liquid right now,” he said. “That would acquire a player that we might even have considered at 17 that might fall. Again it’s all because this draft is such an unknown.”
Even as the Portland Trail Blazers tried to get back into the Ford sweepstakes yesterday, the Raptors decided they like the immediate impact Indiana’s O’Neal will have rather than waiting for anything they could have obtained with the draft pick.
“There was discussion with T.J. at the end of the season and also with his agents or representatives since the end of the season where we amicably discussed the scenario that might play out where he might be part of a trade and he’s comfortable with that,” said Colangelo.
“I’m constantly also not only trying to balance improving the roster for the current day but to maintain flexibility in the future and have the ability to make adjustments as you go forward through either completely remaking the path or to add to the progress that’s been made or to a developing roster,” Colangelo said earlier yesterday.
The deal ends a harried time for the Raptors as they shopped Ford.
According to league sources, Portland made an offer that included Channing Frye and Martell Webster. Both of them have contracts that expire at the end of the season but because of Toronto’s long-term salary obligations, they wouldn’t give the Raptors nearly the financial flexibility the O’Neal contract will when it runs out.
The Raptors envision as strong a frontcourt as they’ve ever had with O’Neal playing alongside Chris Bosh in some kind of inside-outside duo that should give Toronto a huge boost on defence. It will also allow the Raptors to bring Andrea Bargnani off the bench as he tries to regain his rookie season form.
While adding O’Neal might help the .500 squad make an incremental improvement this coming season, his arrival in Toronto marks a step backward for a once up-and-coming club. Thirty in October, Jermaine might be better known as Jer-pain or Jer-moan for his alarming history of injury and gimme-the-ball immaturity. But Colangelo’s suddenly not-so-young Raptors weren’t exactly dealing from strength.
“We need to get tougher, we need to get bigger, defence, rebounding,” said Colangelo, running down the not-inconsiderable weaknesses. “There’s a lot of things we need to address.”
The lot can be hung on Colangelo’s tie rack. Why do they need to get bigger and better at rebounding? Partly because Colangelo’s No. 1-overall pick in the 2006 draft, Andrea Bargnani, has played far smaller and weaker than Colangelo promised. Why did they need to jettison Ford? Because, like O’Neal, he’s prone to injury and immaturity, no secret from the acquisition.
Nine months ago, Colangelo said the core of the club was Chris Bosh, Ford and Bargnani. Now Ford’s heading out, Bargnani’s a boot-camp summer away from being declared a bust, and Bosh is working on his game … as a Jay Leno contributor. Comedy is Bosh’s only remedy, perhaps, because he and Toronto’s fans never expected it to get so lame so quickly.
Does O’Neal get them to the second round? His health’s a bigger question mark than Ford’s, and he’s a worse teammate than Nesterovic with, recent returns suggest, only marginally better stats. Even if he’s better than that, remember Colangelo’s vision of the Euro-tinged, 100-shots-a-night Raptors? Now they’ll indulge O’Neal’s painfully deliberate, averse-to-contact post game. If you thought Ford was a chemistry problem, wait until Jer-mine goes without his touches.
Perhaps even worse, another of Toronto’s perceived advantages – the in-house knowledge of European talent – is moot. Talented Euros aren’t yearning for the lagging U.S. greenback.
“They’re fighting back a little bit,” said Colangelo of the European sides.
The Raptors, by contrast, are doubling back in the direction of the Babcock era, without cap room to yield more talent. Not that Colangelo is about to show up in Dockers, not that they’re a laughingstock. But a year ago the GM was billing his team as more carefully constructed than some disposable fashion. Suddenly his killer wardrobe is looking far more thoughtfully put together than his roster.
Even as we were digesting Jermaine O’Neal, there was a flurry of activity in the Raptor offices until late, late last night and there’s every chance Bryan Colangelo’s got a few things up his sleeve.
Not a lot of downtime time today, it seems.
Word was he’s working on getting another pick – maybe two – in tonight’s draft to find people to groom for the future.
There are no details, of course, but it’s obvious around the league (see New Orleans, Denver) that picks are for sale and available.
What they’d like to do, I surmise (and surmise is all we’re going to get until tonight, I fear) is find a way to draft a young big man, maybe stash him in Europe for a year or two and hope he’s ready when O’Neal’s contract expires.
Not sure what he’s got to offer player-wise (I don’t imagine they’re clamouring for the other of Maceo Baston and Joey Graham) but I could see Hump being in discussions and maybe there’s another GM out there sniffing, too.
The one thing Bryan talked about yesterday that got lost was infatuation in Europe with AP.
Here’s what the GM had to say:
“I think there’s some truth to the notion there was some interest on Europe’s part, or a couple of foreign team’s part, to try to lure a player like an Anthony, who obviously had a huge impact in Europe and would be considered a star returning.
“There may have even been some interest on his part … because the dollars that may have been available may have been ridiculous or silly. I think the notion was expressed back to us that he would really like to stay in the NBA and that would be his first choice.
…
“We have the player under contract, he’s a great, great young man and a very good player for us. He a very good player for and our starting two guard. It’s hard for us to find a scenario where that would be acceptable at this point to allow something like that to happen.”
…
“We’ll continue to monitor what interest there might be but our intention is to have Anthony play for us this year.”
Oh yeah, we walked out to the bowl after Bryan’s thing yesterday to see this new scoreboard.
It’s gonna be freaking HUGE.
The shell’s there, looks like it’s got eight screens for video that are monstrous and about eight more for ads and stats and scores and stuff.
Appears quite impressive.
“We’re talking about a player in T.J. that’s an asset,” Colangelo said. “He’s a starting point guard in the NBA. Due to the fact that … it’s been known that he’s available, so to speak, there’s been a lot of interest. Teams have called and inquired and not put deals on the table that have been insulting in any regard. It’s apparent that T.J.’s value is very high.”
Colangelo refused to specify any details yesterday, saying only he’s in talks with five clubs about Ford, who has three years and $24-million left on his contract.
“We’re looking at a few things, and two of them are straight offers, one is being negotiated and two are simmering,” he said. “Of the five that are out there — it’s moving along.”
There also were reports yesterday the Raptors have talked with the Detroit Pistons about a deal that would net Pistons shooting guard Richard Hamilton, though the Pistons are holding out for Jose Calderon.
“Bryan is talking to everyone,” one Eastern Conference front-office source said. “He’s trying to trade to make his team better.”
Another club that will likely be active in the trade market in the coming week will be the Portland Trail Blazers, who have a bag full of draft picks and good young players, but need a point guard and some salary-cap flexibility.
It was interesting in that context that Colangelo, noting that his club needs both wing scoring — “We’ve talked about finding a legitimate 20-point scorer at the wing position” — and more toughness made reference to wiry Hamilton, who has averaged 20.8 points in 116 career playoff games.
“[The Pistons] mentally, are a very tough team,” Colangelo said. “Rip Hamilton is not a big strong guy, but he’s a pretty tough kid.”
Now, it looks like the Raptors may be taking such a risk. Last night, Ford was on his way to Indiana for a physical, which could pave the way for a trade for six-time all-star Jermaine O’Neal. The Raptors would also send Rasho Nesterovic, the No. 17 pick in today’s NBA draft, and salary-cap ballast to Indiana.
Like Ford, O’Neal has problems. At 29, he’s got knee and leg problems which have caused him to miss 132 games over the past four years. In fairness, 15 of those games came because O’Neal delivered one of the best punches in NBA history, to the jaw of an on-court bozo during the infamous 2004 brawl at the Palace of Auburn Hills.
He’s got shooting problems. O’Neal has shot 45.2% or worse in four of his last five partial seasons, which for a 6-foot-11, 260-pound big man is pretty abysmal. He’s got salary problems. Or rather, whatever team is paying him has salary problems, because it has to pay him US$44-million over the next two seasons. To put that in perspective, O’Neal would command over a third of Toronto’s salary cap through 2010.
He’s got leadership problems, or at least some NBA people think he does. Hey, you try to lead a would-be contender that includes Ron Artest.
But despite all of that, the Raptors seem willing to roll the dice, because as one member of the organization puts it, “It’s a star’s league.” And O’Neal, for all his flaws, has been a star. The last time O’Neal played a full season, he was second team All-NBA. Of course, the last time O’Neal played a full season, George W. Bush was a one-term President. So get ready for the liberal use of the qualifier, ‘When healthy.’
When healthy, Jermaine O’Neal is a star. A secondary star, but a star.
Does he remain one? Maybe. If he blends with Bosh, despite the fact they are both natural power forwards. If he can accept not being a franchise’s cornerstone anymore. If he passes. If he plays.
“You’re always looking for an impact player, sure,” said Colangelo yesterday, before the trade was done. “Interestingly, the depth and quality of play, particularly at the point guard position, was our greatest strength, and perhaps the depth at that position in particular and maybe with the rest of the roster became a little bit of an Achilles’ heel, trying to keep everyone happy … it was tough for players to find a consistency.
“So we’re now in a situation where we’re looking for the quality pieces, to hone our roster a little bit, so we can make some progress that way.”
They’ve got a quality piece. We’ll see if it holds together, and how well it fits.
“This draft is such an unknown. It’s funny how after the first couple of picks, everybody has a different next eight, or next 10,” Colangelo said Wednesday. “It’s hard to determine who’s going to be there for us. There’s a lot of uncertainty, even at 17. I can only imagine what the teams in the 20s are thinking right now, because anyone could be there. The same goes for the top of the second [round.]”
Now, unless Colangelo trades back into the draft – the Raptors will likely be selecting for the Pacers Thursday since Toronto traded its first-round pick last year, and the NBA does not allow teams to deal their first-round picks two years in a row – he will not have a tough decision to make and only five minutes to do so. The Raptors do not have a second-round pick, either.
Not having a pick will save Colangelo some agonizing, undoubtedly.
“There are some really good basketball players at the top of the draft,” Colangelo said. “There are some very good basketball players in the middle. And it’s a deep draft, so there are a lot of bigs we talked about. Guys that might you might even pick up early in the second round and make an impact. That is the kind of draft this is.”
The Pacers will also receive Rasho Nesterovic as well as Toronto’s 17th overall pick. If this goes down, the Raps will have a front-line of O’Neal and Chris Bosh, which, assuming both players stay healthy, is downright scary.
It has potential traction in Sacramento because the Pacers would no longer be desperate for a point guard if they acquire Ford and retain the No. 11 pick, one spot ahead of the Kings. That’s D.J. Augustin territory. And if the Raptors get that selection as part of the deal, they wouldn’t go point guard, not with Jose Calderon coming off a good season and an automatic to be re-signed as a restricted free agent.
The difficulty some teams have had with the contracts of international players, including the Spurs, Magic and Raptors, has had a chilling effect. So has the difficulty some players have had adjusting to the NBA. That includes Andrea Bargnani, the No. 1 overall pick in 2006.
“Maybe more so than the contract problems, I think the success rates of players coming over immediately, and the learning curve and development changes that have to take place, has made a difference,” said Hornets general manager Jeff Bowers. “The sophistication of scouting has made us as knowledgeable of players in Europe as we are of guys in the Big East. The frequency with which teams go to Europe now has made a difference.
The Suns had discussed a trade of Boris Diaw to Toronto for the Raptors’ No. 17 pick and T.J. Ford, whom Porter coached in Milwaukee and would have liked to coach again.
The draft pick was dropped from their brief talks before the Raptors moved on to a deal they reportedly finished with Indiana to send Ford, the pick and Rasho Nesterovic for Jermaine O’Neal.
The Raptors were the main team with an interest in Diaw, but the Suns weren’t interested in taking Ford back in any deal because of the three years and $25 million left on his contract.
Three years ago at the NBA draft, David Lee was part of what was to be the building blocks of the future Knicks, who took home three first-round picks. But at Thursday night’s draft, Lee might be the first player jettisoned in a roster overhaul geared toward a new future under Donnie Walsh and Mike D’Antoni.
Lee, known for his hustle and rebounding, has been a major piece in several trade discussions Walsh has had over the past few days that involve acquiring another pick in the draft to go with the Knicks’ selection at No. 6. The Memphis Grizzlies have considered taking Lee in a package that would include the Knicks’ receiving the Grizzlies’ pick at No. 5.
Other teams, including the Houston Rockets, Indiana Pacers, Toronto Raptors and Portland Trail Blazers have expressed interest in Lee.
Walsh did want to land T.J. Ford, but the Raptors Wednesday traded him along with Rasho Nesterovich and the No. 17 pick to the Pacers for Jermaine O’Neal.
The Pacers are very quietly building a considerably deep backcourt. Now they just have to do something with it. There’s a lot of talk about how this is a win-win situation, but that’s only if O’Neal stays healthy. If he does, though, the Raptors will have a frontcourt that could destroy small worlds. Likewise, TJ Ford has to prove his neck is up to go full speed. So many questions, and we’re not even to draft night yet. Hang on to your hats, folks. This one’s about to get rocky.
Five time All Star Jermaine O’Neal has been traded to the Raptors for T.J. Ford, Rasho Nesterovic (contract expiration) and the 17th pick in tomorrows draft. J.O. was injured for most of last year and returned on March 31. I spoke with him when Indiana came to Philly this past season and he seemed introspective about his fate. He is a great interview and seemed focused on making it all the way back this upcoming season. Good luck bruh. School them young boys up there.
If they both stay healthy, the deal would give Toronto two high-scoring big men so that teams cannot focus the efforts of their defense on Chris Bosh, like the Orlando Magic did in their first-round playoff series in the season that just ended. It also makes their point guard situation less crowded, ensuring that Jose Calderon can sign a contract extension with the Raptors this summer knowing that he will move into the starter’s role and not have Ford unhappy playing behind him. It also could free up some salary-cap space for the Raptors in the summer of 2010, when O’Neal’s contract will come off the books if he is not re-signed. That is the summer that Bosh, LeBron James and Dwyane Wade can opt out of their current contracts. O’Neal will be paid $44 million over the next two seasons.
For Indiana, the trade helps upgrade its point guard position. Jamaal Tinsley, who had been the starter previously, has been injured for much of the past four seasons. In addition, it gives the Pacers a center to help play some of the minutes that O’Neal played at power forward, and the second draft pick will provide another young player to help them remake their roster.
Now that O’Neal is coming to town, questions will arise in Toronto about how Sam Mitchell will integrate their acquisition with the former #1 pick, Italian player Andrea Bargnani. While some who are unhappy with the progress of Bargnani since being drafted will be hoping he is moved to the bench, others who view Bargnani as having the potential of being a 7-foot tall shooting dynamo like Dirk Nowitzki, will be seeking a shift of Bargnani from the 4/5 spot, to a starting role at the small forward position. There is a lot to be worked out before the start of next season for the Raptors. Questions will arise about whether or not Bargnani has the foot speed to guard other small forwards, or whether O’Neal can stay healthy manning the Center position for a full 82 games. But before we get ahead of ourselves, could there be more changes coming in Toronto before the fall?
I’m good with win-win and despite O’Neal’s checkered health in recent years if Bryan Colangelo thinks O’Neal will be ready to go then I’m with Colangelo. The notion of having O’Neal and Chris Bosh side-by-side in the Raptors front court sounds positively scary. If Andrea Bargnani can salvage his career in the next couple of years then there will be no rest for opposing front courts.
During this off season the Raptors have jettisoned… Jorge Garbojosa, TJ Ford, Rasho Nesterovic, and Maceo Baston.
The Raptors have brought in Jermaine O’Neal and his big contract.
It is highly likely that Primoz Brezec is persona non grata in the NBA and the Raptors are going to let him walk this off season. Likewise, with this deal it is likely the team will not permit restricted free agent Carlos Delfino to leave during free agency.
The Raptors have quite a few holes to fill at this point in the game. Roko Ukic might be coming over but there are still, even with Ukic, about five roster spots the team needs to fill. I’m betting that Colangelo and his staff go fishing overseas to plug some holes for this team. All that said, there should be a much shorter bench for Sam Mitchell next year.
After all it is no secret I have a high value for T.J Ford and have concerns about Jose Calderon going forward. But much like the departure of Chuck Swirsky to Chicago it is something that I am going to come to terms with in time. There is no question that based on O’Neal being a big name this will gain the Raptors a lot of attention. Here is hoping that Jermaine O’Neal can be a healthy and productive Raptor. After all Bryan Colangelo is banking on this happening. I also think that Sam Mitchell could be a good fit as a coach for O’Neal and push him to get the most out of him. It is clear the last few years in Indiana that was not happpening. I point back to the Brawl at the Palace that to me at least seemed to change O’Neal and he never got back to being the same player he was prior to that night. A chance of setting to an entire new country may be good for him on and off the floor. Time will tell and the Raptors still have some things left to do. They now have a second star for Chris Bosh to play with. Would it be my choice for that second star? Not really but that being said it was clear that this was needed for the Raptors to reach a new level. I also am happy this will most likely make Andrea Bargnani a bench player and could allow him to play more at his natural spot at the 4 when Bosh is taking a blow. I think this will be a good thing for him as well as it seems clear he was not ready for the challenge of being a starter in the NBA at this point.
I am a little sad to see T.J. go. I think he got caught up in a no win situation and every little thing he did wrong got blown out of proportion and piled on to why he had to go. You heard it hear first, Ford will come back to bite the Raps in the ass one day. So many former Raptors have done it already and T.J. will continue to the trend. The sounds of speeding engines on Indiana’s home floor and all of the car references imaginable will make T.J. a perfect fit before he even steps on the floor. I wish him the best and hope he can play injury free for years to come.
I guess the deal kind of makes tonight a little boring if you are a Raptors fan. All the weeks of trying to guess who they would pick down the tubes. Maybe they will be involved in another trade? I mean they still need a small forward and a back up PG.
O’Neal is coming off two seasons marred by bumps, bruises, major injuries, surgery, and rehab. Some are wondering if he has any of that “All Star talent” left in him that he displayed in a 4-5 years stretch with the Pacers that saw him evolve into (pretty much) a 20 and 10 guy. He was one of the most dominant big men in the NBA.
O’Neal missed 40 games last year – mostly due to a left knee injury (torn meniscus). His rehabilitation didn’t go well and it certainly hindered his return to the flow. But so too did his attitude towards the current state of his Pacers club. O’Neal apparently didn’t see eye to eye with coach Jim O’Brien or team president Larry Bird. He wanted no part of a rebuilding project and yearned for the days when Indy was winning 50-60 games and considered one of the best – if not THE best – teams in the Eastern Conference.
That black cloud is now hanging over O’Neal’s head. But maybe, just maybe, a fresh start is exactly what he needs … not only regarding his injuries … but his attitude as well.
Coming to the Raptors offers an opportunity to prove to the league that he’s not done — that his knee IS healthy again — and he’s got plenty left in his 29-year-old tank. He’s still young enough that he’s got at least one more big contract left in him … and if he hopes to get that deal when his current contract runs out in two years … he’ll have to earn it on and off the floor with Toronto.
O’Neal should be smart enough to realize all of this. And if he comes in rejuvenated, he’ll help form one of the most potent 1-2 front court punches in the league … alongside Chris Bosh.
Toronto needed to get tougher; they needed more rebounder; and they needed help on the defensive end. Jermaine O’Neal fills all of those voids. He’s a shot-blocking presence down low and he’ll go after it on the glass. Between him and Bosh, the Raps should be a force to be reckoned with in terms of rebounding. When was the last time we said that about a Raptors squad?
And while it’s fair to be concerned about O’Neal’s perceived attitude, dare I suggest that this might be exactly what Toronto needs? Obviously no team in any league wants a cancer in their locker room or internal strife, but would a little attitude or nastiness not be a good thing?
Folks have been saying for a long time that the Raptors are “too nice” — that they need a little “grit”. Well, O’Neal can provide that.
But don’t be fooled: Toronto has not acquired a complete jerk. O’Neal can be very engaging with the fans and media. He proved that in Indy before things went sour. He may not be a choir boy or boyscout, but he’s not a total punk or thug either.
O’Neal’s presence in Toronto’s front court will allow Mitchell to bring Andrea Bargnani off the bench – using Bosh, O’Neal, and Bargnani in a 3-man rotation of the bigs. Kris Humphries, barring another trade that brings in another big body, will likely see more minutes in the shuffling of bodies as well.
If I had to guess, I’d say the starting line up with feature Bosh, O’Neal, Jose Calderon, Anthony Parker, and Jason Kapono. Kapono will likely get the shot to start again following his impressive performance during the Raptors first round series against the Orlando Magic 6 weeks ago.
The rest of the 2nd unit will be filled via trades and/or free agency. The Raptors due have the mid-level (around $5 million) to spend on a free agent and I have a feeling Bryan Colangelo will not be happy sitting back at the draft tonight. I believe Toronto could be very active in trying to obtain a late first-round pick this evening … after giving up #17 to Indy.
The Raptors are giving up three current players from their roster for O’Neal (Rasho, Ford, Baston) which would leave Toronto with only eight players under contract, assuming of course that Calderon is re-signed; Bosh, Bargnani, Kapono, Moon, Parker, Humphries, Graham and Jose. And considering the salary attached to O’Neal, the Raptors aren’t going to have a lot of room to work with financially to fill out their bench.
So grabbing some cheap talent, especially in a deep draft like tonight’s that may see first-round talent suddenly drop into the second round, may now be tops on Colangelo’s list. JaVale McGee, Nicolas Batum, JJ Hickson, Serge Ibaka and even Chris Douglas-Roberts could all drop into the early first round and other potential second-round picks could present some great value at 41. (Hey, after all the scouting and draft watching we did this year, we’re just happy that Toronto now has a pick!)
And suddenly, what was somewhat of a yawn of a free agent camp takes on a whole new meaning. Players like Rod Benson, Hassan Adams, Pooh Jeter and Dahntay Jones could very well find themselves completing this roster for next season.
It’s early to talk free agency but the player I think Toronto should throw its full force at is actually Kelenna Azubuike. He’s a slashing scorer that would be a great fit in Toronto off the bench and considering he made under $700,000 last year, would hardly break the bank. He is a restricted free agent, but considering that Golden State has to think about re-signing him, Biedrins, Ellis, Barnes, O’Bryant, and the aforementioned Pietrus (not to mention the Baron Davis situation), they aren’t going to be able to overpay someone like Kelenna.
The Raptors desperately need help in the post. Rasho is as soft as they come and at least O’Neal will add some grit and rebounding in the low post. I’m still very wary of his knees but in reality, the Raptors aren’t giving up a ton to get a premier talent. Despite being in the league for more than a decade, O’Neal is still only 29 years old, relatively young by NBA standards. He carries a huge contract ($44 million over the next two years) but the Raptors are essentially trading that much money in contracts. The Raptors frontcourt will instantly go from mediocre to one of the best in the league, especially if Andrea Bargnani can have a bounceback junior season(which I think he will). All the Raptors give up is a mediocre center with an expiring contract, a PG they have no use for, a bench player and a draft pick that will likely be a bench player. I’ll take quality over quantity any day.
Then there’s the matter of giving up the 17th pick in a deep draft. You could argue that the draft combined with TJ Ford provided us an opportunity to fulfill two needs: wing scoring and rebounding. However, we’ve packaged both of our best summer assets and a serviceable center for one player and passed up the opportunity to have a shot at some solid players that are slated to go in the teens in the draft. Granted, it’s early and we could trade our way back into the first round but I don’t see many teams willing to give up their first round picks this year. The pick to me is the hardest thing to give up here because there’s just so much bloody potential out there.
Then there’s the question of salary. O’Neal just became the highest paid Raptor and if God forbid he injures himself and ends up playing 40 games this year, his trade value come summertime will be zilch. That’s 20 million tied up in salary for the 2009-10 season! There’s no doubt that this deal has to a degree handcuffed the Raptors in terms of future trades and signings.
The most glaring aspect of this trade is that we’ve handed our PG responsibilities to Jose Calderon without a certified backup on the roster. Calderon has as many defensive issues (if not more) than Ford and is as liable as going into a scoring drought as Ford. He does happen to be a better fit for the Raptors given his holding style of play which suits our “offense” much better. This isn’t a knock on TJ, he happens to need more athletic, alert, fast-break type players to be successful. Calderon doesn’t, he’s willing to patrol the three point line and be patient with Bosh on posts and re-posts while there’s inconsequential movement on the weak side. To put it in simpler terms, TJ Ford’s a Don Nelson/Mike D’Antoni player. Nothing wrong with it, except we’re not nearly as up-tempo, exciting, fast-breaking or athletic as players in those systems need to be.
The final word on the trade: We gave up too much and took on the greater risk. We gave up the younger player with less chronic injuries, a valuable teen pick in a deep draft and the expiring contract of a good center for a player who was great 4 years ago. I’d feel far more comfortable if we hadn’t given up the pick. All those workouts for nothing.
Now Toronto has a matching set of power forward-centers: yesterday’s and today’s. Indiana now has two formerly-excellent point guards. This move would have been the blockbuster of the year three seasons ago. Now it seems kind of like odd parts for both, with a few more pieces to Indiana and an attempt to match Boston’s firepower for Toronto. Seems more like a headline-creating trade than a difference-maker to me.
That said, I think it’s fair to say not too many Pacer fans are going to be all torn up that O’Neal has been traded to Toronto for T.J. Ford, Rasho Nesterovic and the Raps’ first round pick in tonight’s draft.
It’s been a pretty lukewarm relationship for awhile now. O’Neal, it seems, has been injured more often than not in recent times, and he’s been dissatisfied with the situation in Indianapolis for awhile.
He’s also always going to be associated with a team that never contended with the East’s elite and a group of guys that spent a lot of time tearing up Indy night clubs.
O’Neal wanted to go to a contender, and he got his wish. Albeit a contender in the Eastern Conference so…I’m not sure what that’s really saying.
I’m usually one to look for what will go wrong with a trade, but frankly this one just makes a lot of sense. It allows both teams to unload a player they didn’t have in their long-term plans and one injury risk is swapped for another. It also gives both teams a degree of financial flexibility when they would prefer to have it while filling a serious need for each. Basically, it’s what an NBA trade should be: a calculated gamble that makes financial and basketball sense. And because it pushes each team in the right direction for this season and beyond, even the casual fan can get behind it.
Toronto figures to be a contender in the East in 2008-09 and Indiana doesn’t, so we’ll start with what this deal does for the Raptors. After a decent start to the season they faded in the second half amid a point guard controversy. As they started to fall in the standings Chris Bosh, the face of the franchise, publicly opined that the Raptors were “too soft.” He was right, and Bosh playing center was part of the problem. GM Jerry Colangelo has built a decidedly Euro team around shooters finesse players. They had no interior presence on the defensive end of the floor and undrafted 27-year-old rookie SF Jamario Moon was their best shot blocker.
After compiling a 41-41 record in the regular season Toronto was quickly dispatched by the Orlando Magic in the first round because they simply had no answer for the overpowering Dwight Howard. That will happen when you have starting center and power forward duo of Chris Bosh and Radoslav Nesterovich.
As much as I like this trade for the Raptors, it just gives them even less depth. This is a team whose bench virtually disappeared when they were struggling in the second half, and now they’re trading PG 1B (Ford), one of the only players who played well in the second half (Rasho), AND the 17th pick in this year’s draft (at least a decent bench player) for one player?
Here’s the Raptors’ basic depth chart for next season:
PG: Calderon-Ukic(?- reportedly is coming over, will he stick?)
SG: Parker-Delfino(?- RFA, hopefully resigned)
SF: Moon-Kapono-Graham
PF: Bosh-Humphries-Baston(?- what if included in trade?)
C: O’Neal-Bargnani
The scorecard would be:
Gained: C Jermaine O’Neal
Lost: PG T.J. Ford, C Rasho Nesterovic, PF Jorge Garbajosa, 17th overall pick, PF Maceo Baston(?)
That’s basically five roster players lost, one gained. Now, I’m sure GM Bryan Colangelo is not through wheeling and dealing, I honestly wouldn’t even be surprised to see Toronto pick up an additional draft pick tomorrow night, and free agency hasn’t even started yet, so I’m sure this isn’t the opening night roster we’ll have to open the season.
But, let’s be honest, Toronto doesn’t have a lot of tradeable assets left after this deal (Moon, Kapono, Parker’s expiring contract) and they have even less salary flexibility after this deal, as they still pretty much only have a mid-level exception to snag help via free agency.
The Indian-Toronto trade seems pointless to me. I guess Indiana got the better end of the deal, but that can depend on who they draft. As for Toronto… wasn’t Jermaine O’Neal Chris Bosh before Chris Bosh was Chris Bosh? How are those two gonna fit on the court together? One is injury prone and one won’t go inside. Awesome.
This trade is the first step in a direction that will improve the Raptors overall defence and provide the team with a six time all-star to complement Chris Bosh. If Jermaine stays healthy, Toronto arguably has one of the strongest front court tandems in the NBA.
Of course, the Raptors still need to add an impact swingman before they become real contenders. But, let’s wait and see what Bryan does over the upcoming days and weeks to address that situation.
The O’Neal acquisition also takes pressure off Andrea Bargnani who returns to his sixth man role he played as a rookie, where many observers feel he is most suited to play at this point in his career.
So we trade 4 of our 7 chips to get one player, we let another walk (pay him $2mil, and pocket another $2mil) that does more harm then good IMHO, can’t trade Parker now, because we need him at 2, and the lineup is a bit depleted….oh yea, no cap flexibility next summer.
We do have the mid-level, but who can we conceivably get to fill the 3 with under $6mil? Signing Delfino becomes a sticking point. We can’t let him leave now, and may have to overpay.
What it does do is potentially give Calderon a sign that he is the man in Toronto, and hope to G*d Riley doesn’t sign him to an offer sheet that would seriously sodomize the Raptors cap situation even more.
For the record, Jermaine O’Neal will be turning 30 during training camp. When healthy, he’s a 10 board per game player who can add a couple of blocks each game. He’s 6’11″ and 260 lbs, which is by no means undersized for NBA centers. While his offensive numbers percentages could be better, that’s not his primary role in Toronto. As the Celtics proved – its all about playing tough defence, baby!
Don’t for a minute think that this is the end of the dealing. I expect another shoe (or two) to drop in the next few weeks. Bryan will address the need for an upgrade on the wing.
Right now, I give this deal a 7.5 out of 10. If JO is injured, its a 6 out of 10. If JO remains healthy, it becomes a 9 out of 10.
At this juncture, we need to wait and see how it all plays out.
So, what does this mean for the Raptors, who are taking the biggest gamble in this here trade?
Well, for starters, they’re getting a guy (and as always, health permitting) with All-Star potential, capable of giving you 20-10, and alongside CB4, gives Toronto one of the best and most fearsome frontlines in the Association. If, if, healthy. If not, well, you’re stuck paying someone close to $45 mil over the next two seasons to sit on the bench and look fly in designer suits.
J.O. and TJ are two guys who both desperately needed a change of scenery, and the two teams are definitely happy to see them both go. Not sure what that says about either player, but if uncle injury doesn’t rear his ugly head again, this should be a good move for everyone involved. Again, if.
“If he comes to play, Toronto becomes a team that is now a serious contender in the East” said one Western Conference assistant coach.
“He (O’Neal) gives them (Toronto) a low post presence that you have to have in the East and don’t be fooled by his seemingly slight frame. He will go down in the post and work there all day. If you don’t get him off the block or front him, he will score or get fouled.”
Did the Raptors give up too much?
Considering it was a given that Ford was the subject of trade inquiries from other NBA teams and was going to be moved, Rasho Nesterovic becomes an expiring contract after July 1, neither Maceo Baston nor Joey Graham expected to get much playing time and pick No. 17 probably not going to have much of an immediate impact, the answer is no.
Who now backs up Calderon at the point?
This is one that will have to be addressed through free agency. It will have to be a guy that has to be able to start in a pinch, in the event that Calderon gets injured, have the skills to break down the defence on the dribble, run the break, and defend his position. There are many names out there but if you are making a move to live in the moment and try to win now and not later, which is what this trade seems to suggest, there are plenty of serviceable players to fill the void.
The obvious implication here is that Bird, the Pacers’ president of basketball operations, held O’Neal out there for any and all takers, and didn’t get a lot of attention. Hardly any, apparently.
Surely, you don’t believe Bird talked only to the Raptors and found their deal such a no-brainer there was no need to go further shopping do you? Of course Bird came sniffing around Oakland knowing full-well the Warriors are in the market for frontcourt help … any kind of frontcourt help.
And Mullin must have said: “Nah.”
Which tells me one thing: Jermaine O’Neal is done. He must be.
Ford is a nice player, but in a perfect world he doesn’t have back and neck issues and he’s coming off the bench and playing about 18 to 20 minutes a night for you. Nesterovic will come off the Pacers cap at the end of 2008-09, which will help, and so might the pick.
But O’Neal was the face of the Pacers’ franchise for almost a decade, for goodness sakes. The only conclusion to come to is that knee injuries have taken their toll and O’Neal will not only never be the same as before but he won’t be able to come close.
Still, we’re talking about a 20-point and 9-rebound guy in six of the past seven seasons, and one of the league’s best shot-blockers. Yes, he’s making $21 million and $23 million over the next two years but that’s not long to wait to have that kind of money come off your cap.
If O’Neal got traded for Ford, then whom did Mullin refuse to part with? Apparently just about everyone on the Warriors’ roster. Which again, tells me that Mullin and every other GM out there think O’Neal’s days are over or just about there.
We’ll see.
One such player that’s available would also fill our point guard need, Toronto Raptors TJ Ford. Ford would be a MONSTER addition to our roster in my opinion. I’d be all for acquiring him. Rumor is there’s a deal in the works for Ford between Toronto and Indiana. You’ll see different variations but the most popular version has the Indiana Pacers sending six time All-Star forward/center Jermaine O’Neal to the Toronto Raptors for guard T.J. Ford, center Rasho Nesterovic, and the Number 17 pick in the 2008 NBA Draft. I’m not to hot on this deal because I think O’neal would be good on a team with other stars but he’s not going to elevate the Raptors so I don’t see the point on the high price to get him for them. Time will tell if this deal goes through or not. If it does, expect Walsh to make a call and see if something could be worked out.
So the upshot is, this deal absolutely works for both teams. I expect the Raptors to be significantly better next season as a result of this deal, as it takes a player who was utterly redundant and converts him into a solution for the team’s single biggest weakness.
And I expect the Pacers’ rebuilding to be much smoother and faster now that they’ve jettisoned O’Neal and received ’09 cap space and two good young pieces in return.
The players come out of it in better shape, too. O’Neal and Ford get new leases on life after being sprung from difficult situations. Bosh finally gets a frontcourt partner to do the dirty work for him. Calderon gets starter’s minutes and some added salary leverage. Even throw-ins Nesterovic and Baston are likely to get more burn in Indy than they would have in Toronto. Only Bargnani loses.
So it’s a win-win all-around. Kudos to both Bird and Colangelo for recognizing the mutual benefit.
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If you are looking to chat it up during tonight’s draft, here are the two best places to do it:
AltRaps will try and pop into both at some point, so we’ll see you there.
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[...] risk as TJ Ford, 17th pick and Rasho traded for Jermaine O’Neal + RaptorsNation.orgLinkage – June 26 on Raptors assume greater risk as TJ Ford, 17th pick and Rasho traded for Jermaine O’Neal [...]
Thanks For the Plug on the Draft Party. It obviously needs some help from Bryan Colangelo to make it more interesting. But still it is a nice chance to gather a bunch of Raptor Fans in one place. Look Forward to seeing anyone who pops in you are all welcome.
James Dino Nation Bloggers last blog post..The Future Beyond This Deal
Referring to yourself in the third person are we?? Thanks for the link.
My rating for this trade is 6.5/10 and from Indiana’s perspective its a 9/10. That 17th pick is sticking it to me but I’ll wait till tonight and see who is actually available at #17 and if Rush/CDR/Greene are gone then I’ll give BC some props for recognizing this and moving the pick by using its value in a trade.
Arsenalists last blog post..Live Blogging the 2008 NBA Draft through Cover It Live
The one thing that sticks in my craw with that thinking is how BC states he thinks some good talent will still be around at 17.
The $20mil off the books in 2 years looks great right now…but so did Rasho’s $8mil and that just got handed to someone else. We haven’t had a first round pick since the mistake 2 years ago. We have the MLE and about $4mil to spend to get 5-6 guys. Whomever we draft at 41 is far from being impactful.
Bollocks.
I don’t buy the “cap space” advantage of this deal. We would’ve had as much cap space to sign whoever we wanted anyway. Garbo, Rasho, Parker, Bargnani, Graham, Baston, Ford (option) would’ve all come off the cap. Unless we’re planning on signing Lebron to a $30M/yr contract, we were doing OK.
Getting a good NBA player at 41 is possible but the Raptors organization has NEVER been able to steal someone in the second round and there’s no reason to believe this will be the year. Obviously we can’t get Roy Hibbert because we already have JO and I don’t see any solid defensive players that can sure up that leaky perimeter D.
Arsenalists last blog post..Live Blogging the 2008 NBA Draft through Cover It Live
I’m sure BC is going to rent some players at the end of the 1st round or beginning of the second. Teams are jettising these picks all over the place, and it’s supposed to be a deep draft.
Don’t get me started on CDR… I just don’t get the hype over that guy.
Spudzs last blog post..Book Organization | My Eclectic Segregations
WTF does “rent some players” mean?
Arsenalists last blog post..Live Blogging the 2008 NBA Draft through Cover It Live
Also, I was more excited to get a chance at Rush than CDR. Brandon Rush is going to be a solid NBA player for years to come.
Arsenalists last blog post..Live Blogging the 2008 NBA Draft through Cover It Live
Worst draft class that we’ve seen in a long time in my opinion. No wonder Colangelo worked out so many people.. wanted to make sure he wasn’t going to miss out on anything.
i hope we don’t fill out the rotation with draft picks, that wont get us anywhere…
Raps Fans last blog post..Raptors Get Their Big Man in O’Neal
Scott: “We haven’t had a first round pick since the mistake 2 years ago.”
That’s right. I always blamed the Suns’ trade and outright sale of draft picks for three or four years straight on Sarver or D’Antoni, but Toronto’s doing the same thing. With the Suns, it wound up giving them a team built around an aging Nash and seriously counting on contributions from Grant Hill and Shaquille O’Neal, two of the oldest and most rickety players in the league.
What I’m saying is that Tattaglia is a pimp. What I never new until this day is it was Colangelo all along.
“rent some players” – Arsenalist, I have no idea WTF this means (I’m SURE someone stole my access and posted without my knowledge ;o).
That being said, what the person who stole my access MEANT to say was probably: “Look for BC to trade some future picks for picks in this year’s draft.” It wouldn’t surprise me if he had a few “future considerations” or whatnot.
Spudzs last blog post..Book Organization | My Eclectic Segregations